ahead of what's next
An interview-style podcast that keeps you at the cutting edge of enterprise software!
In each episode, we dive deep into the world of technology and innovation, bringing you insightful interviews with industry experts, thought leaders, and trailblazers who are shaping the future of enterprise solutions.
Tune in for lively discussions, as we navigate the ever-evolving landscape of enterprise software.
ahead of what's next
Cybersecurity and Spooky Season
In this episode, we chat the Information Security Officer of Nextworld— Micah Hedrick. We discuss security breaches, the importance of company compliance and security measures, and end with a fan favorite FACT OR FICTION! Stick around for some extra tidbits, as Quinton and Emily interview Micah for the entirety of this fun-filled episode. Enjoy the show!
to another episode of the head of what's next podcast. I am joined today with some very special guests alongside me as always is Emily. Good to be here. In this episode, we're going to be celebrating cyber security month. And of course it's October. So we have to cover a few. of the most horrifying instances of not witches, not ghosts, but cyber attacks. Dun. And don't worry too much because we will be sharing some helpful tips on how you can ensure the protection for your company. Grab your popcorn, get comfortable, as Emily introduces today's guest.
Emily:are excited to be welcoming Micah Hedrick today. Yay. So after graduating from the University of Oklahoma, I'm told it is not OSU and not to make that mistake. Micah served in the army for 14 years. as a military intelligence officer. And today he serves as next world's information security officer. Is that correct?
Q:Sounds good.
Emily:I just gave you a title.
Q:It does sound good. It could be techno
Emily:King. Ooh,
Q:can we, like Elon Musk, we patent that or is that his name?
Emily:He's got it already. I know
Q:he wants, got everything first.
Emily:But Micah here, he is very passionate about this thing. We call cyber security. Making other people aware of how they can protect their company and the people inside it. Since it's October, and we like to celebrate the spooky season, we're telling some scary stories today. We have to ask Micah what kinds of scary stories he likes. do you like scary movies?
Micah:Yeah, I'm kind of a classics guy. I would have to say My favorite is probably Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho. Wow. Okay. Yes. I like those old time movies. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good choice.
Q:I, unfortunately, when it came to scary movies, I think I got into them before my parents thought I got into them. I just turned on the TV one day and I just saw a scary movie. I'm like, oh, this looks interesting. Like AMC, they used to do back home for us on our channel. It was just like the Friday the 13th, it's the Nightmare on Elm Street, it's all of October. It's always a scary movie on. So I like those classics or those older films in regards to horror. But the one that really got me when I was 12, 13 years old, when A Stranger Calls came out and I was just started babysitting. And the premise of this movie is they're in this big glass house. There's a babysitter babysitting two kids. And then she gets a phone call from a guy and
Emily:the call is coming from inside the house coming from inside the house exactly
Q:coming from exactly and I want to say that's my favorite just because it did it like impacted me the most and I respect that now that I'm older, but when I was younger, I didn't like it too much, but I respect it now. I respect it now.
Emily:No.
Q:What about you?
Emily:Okay. A classic I like is The Shining. I think it's cool. We're in Colorado. A lot of it was filmed in Estes Park, I think, at the Stanley Hotel. Have you been
Q:there?
Emily:To the hotel? I have not. I have. You have. Tell us about it.
Micah:Yeah. It's actually, there are a lot of haunting ghost stories related to the Stanley Hotel. You can go down. They've got a museum. They can show you all the different Things that they've experienced, people have experienced,
Emily:the
Micah:history behind it. Yeah.
Emily:Really cool.
Q:I went to Estes last year, and I made it a point to avoid that. That was just that's not my forte. But anyway, so the shining and what else, what other movies you got?
Emily:One that really freaked me out and I don't think I could ever watch this again is the grudge.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah. Yeah.
Emily:Yeah. And I'm not going to incriminate my mom by telling people how she really scared me after I watched that. But um, yeah, that, that got me for a year probably.
Q:Yeah. That's a creepy one for sure.
Emily:It is. So classics are better.
Q:Yes, I agree. The classics are better. The horror genre, it has its, it's kind of altered, it's like the ghost phenomenon, paranormal lately as of late but yeah, the classics, I agree.
Emily:Another question we had for you, Micah definitely not pertinent to horror films at all is what drew you to the military? I think that's something we've touched on a little bit over the years since I've known you, but I'm not really sure why you decided to join the army.
Micah:That's a good question, you know? So I'm going to date myself a little bit, you know, the time was the eighties and America was riding high at that time and I wanted to be active. I wanted a job where I could be active and engaged and travel and do exciting things, crazy things. And so the army just called to me in that way. So yeah, at OU, went through ROTC there and became an officer and got my commissioned. Cool thing is I started out on as a tank officer before I was military intelligence. So that was fun. You know, a lot of my good stories are getting to blow up things. It's always fun for a young guy, right? Every 20
Emily:something year old dude wants to blow stuff up.
Q:Exactly. You're darn right we do. There's something exciting about it. So. Oklahoma, was that always the school you wanted to go to or did you fall into it? Why Oklahoma?
Micah:Yeah, it was, you know, I kind of grew up in the plain states between Missouri and Texas, so driving through Oklahoma and I was, it really comes down to football. Yeah. Big NYU football fan from the time I was a kid watching, you know, Billy Sims and then Bosworth and Jemele Holloway. Going to school with some of those guys too, oh, that's
Q:cool. Real quick before we get into our next questions, in the bulk of why people are here listening. Scale 1 to 10, how do we feel about the team this year for the Sooners, how do we feel?
Micah:I'm feeling real good about it. Real good. I'm feeling real good. I know we're in a new conference, we've got a really tough schedule. Yep. But I think the team is well equipped to represent themselves well in the SEC.
Q:Okay, enough of me blabbering. Please, Emily, get us on track. What are we here to talk about?
Emily:We are talking about cyber security. And so I really want part of this podcast to feel like Micah's just brought us into story time. We're gathered around a campfire. He's got a flashlight under his chin. Are you picturing it? Oh yes. The fire's warming us right now and it's like ghost story time. That's kind of what I want. But of course we're not talking about ghosts. Something worse. This is really real stuff. Yes. I mean, ghosts are real too.
Q:Sidebar. Ghosts are real. Sidebar.
Emily:But we do want to hear some stories today from you, Micah, about maybe some different cyber attacks that you have either witnessed or read about and maybe your take on them. Would you paint us the picture?
Micah:Yeah, absolutely. We've, it's been an exciting year of a number of different cyber attacks. We have one A little while ago that I think a lot of people know about that affected the automotive industry. And what happened there was the company that provides your dealerships with their software was attacked and held for ransom. Basically took all their systems offline for several weeks as a matter of fact. And the companies, the dealerships had to go back to paper and pen trying to do transactions in some cases. To get oil changes on your car, you couldn't get it done because they couldn't process it or they couldn't get parts delivered. All that kind of stuff caused a major disruption, but also cost a ton of money. The last estimate I had read was it was going to cost the dealerships about 600 million for the outage. Wow. Wow. Q2 cells was way down, which impacted our SSA nation, our GDP. And and then the company in question, it was reported that they paid a ransom of 25 million. Wow. Yeah. So
Emily:when they get this, is it like, you know, in the movies when someone cuts out letters from a magazine and glues them together with Elmer's and then hands the paper over or I mean, it's all digital, right?
Micah:Yeah, but it is kind of like that, right? You all of a sudden your system's down and something pops up on the screen with, you Maybe a skull and crossbones and saying, Hey, you got to pay us this amount of money for us to release your software, you know, and they give them instructions and everything's done through cryptocurrency, that sort of thing. Yeah, it's, it is the old, just digital, right?
Emily:And something I was reading kind of in regards to that same attack that you're referencing is it's not like you pay the ransom and then the lights just immediately come back on.
Micah:Yeah. What happens is, there's actually two forms of payments. There's ransomware and there's extortion, and we don't know which happened in this. Could have been both. Probably was a little bit of both. Is that ransomware is, they've taken your system hostage, so they've encrypted your files. You have to pay the ransom to get the encryption key so that you can decrypt those files and stand your system back up. Then extortion is they've stolen the data and they say, Hey, if you don't pay us this money, we're gonna release all this data out to the public, all your customer data out to the public. Yeah, there's two aspects of it, and it isn't even once you get that encryption key. Now you've got to build the system back up. You've missed days and in this case weeks. They were down for weeks and to build their systems back up. It took that long to Restore data, get all those transactions in sync and all that kind of stuff. So it's not immediate in a lot of cases.
Q:Has there been a public example that really is the extortion type of attack is, has there been a public example recently or in the past that it was a huge deal in cybersecurity space or,
Micah:That probably, Was extortion and didn't work out. So well, there was one earlier this year that where they had hacked a public records company. So all you know, personal, they were screen scraping personal information out and estimated 2. 9 billion people. Oh, wow. Information was out there. So basically, if you were online, your information is out there somewhere in the dark. So in that case, there was no extortion. The data was released. You know, we've had, um, there was a record, and I don't, we don't know if it was extortion or ransomware, but we set the record earlier this year at some Fortune 50 company paying a 75 million to a cyber attacker.
Q:Oh my. Yeah. 75
Micah:million. 75 million. Oh. Now these big companies, I guess they can absorb that, but. Sure. Man, that's huge. Yeah. Wow.
Emily:That is huge. And then I think, you know, there's the financial impact to the company. And then there's the one that's maybe harder to quantify, which is really like how your brand suffers. People don't want to trust you with their data anymore. People don't really want to do business with you because they know that you've undergone something like this.
Micah:And that's a difficult, these companies have Also, for the people that are using it, because it's not always easy to get out
Speaker 5:from,
Micah:you know, your provider. It's expensive to upgrade or to switch out software and that kind of thing, even though they want to. I know a number of the dealerships, I've been on calls and webinars with them, talk about, you know, they need to look at maybe not putting all their eggs in one basket. That's easier said than done, because it's not cheap to pull out systems. And replace them with new ones, and especially if you're going to replace them with multiple different systems.
Emily:Yeah. That's speaking of replacement, I think there's a report that we've that came out earlier this year, and basically the White House is calling, I believe, software companies to stop using certain programming languages because they've uncovered certain vulnerabilities. Do you want to share a little bit about that?
Micah:Yeah. It's specifically named C and C plus programming languages. And these type of languages they're not memory safe. In other words, so the best example I heard about it is, imagine you have a to do list and it's 10, you know, you've got 10 to do's on it and you go in and ask it for the 11th. You should get some kind of error message, right? That's what we would expect. There are no 11. There's only 10. In these languages that have memory vulnerabilities like this, they may leak a to do list item off of another to do list, you know, like number one off of somebody else's, which when we're talking about to do lists, that's not a major thing, but imagine if you're talking about social security numbers,
Speaker 4:it leaks a
Micah:social security number over that's not yours, you know, I see my, and I ask for, you know, give me the next. It's Social Security and it's EMILY's,
Speaker 5:right?
Micah:That's where the problem comes in. Or you're, the other problem is you go to make a change and you say, I want to change the 11th to do list item to this. Now you've got, you know, you've violated your data integrity's all off now. Messed up.
Emily:That's kind of terrifying. Yeah.
Q:No, that is definitely terrifying to think about. Just to think that. That, that even situation can happen because a lot of people that aren't familiar with cybersecurity and they're just there to work and do their jobs, they don't know that that's a possibility. And then all of a sudden it happens and it's a mess. So yeah, very surprising, but the report came out and a month ago or so, the White House came out with a report
Emily:and just how prevalent these programming languages are. bring people into this. I read that about 22 percent of all software programs or programmers are using C plus, and then 19 percent are using C as of 2023. That's just last year. So these are, no, these are pretty prevalent.
Micah:They're very there because they were strong languages for the time. I mean, that's what I started. I was a C plus programmer when I started out. Really? Yeah. And they're very powerful languages. You can do a lot of business, good business software with They were developed when we didn't have the kind of threats that we have now.
Emily:And so we were talking about these programming languages that a lot of software companies are using. And one other piece of the report that I found interesting was sort of this call for a shift in responsibility where these larger tech and software companies sort of have to take ownership over what. What languages and what technologies they're using and implementing as part of delivering their product. What do you think about that?
Micah:It's, there's kind of two sides to the coin here on this. One is the tech companies having the responsibility and we do, I believe we do as a tech company. We have a responsibility to ensure the security of our customers and their data that they entrust with us. But the other side of it is the customers and what they pick. And this is where we get into discussions around legacy software, right? And what I mean by that is you're using software that works great for your company. You've had it forever. And it goes back to what I was talking about earlier about being expensive to change. But some of the software is no longer supported, right?
Speaker 5:You've
Micah:got customers out there using Windows servers that are 20 years old or more. And that's They're not being patched. They're not being secure. You know, they're just old. And so they're leaving those companies vulnerable or your own company vulnerable by using that kind of stuff. So I think there's a responsibility on both sides to realize that the world has changed and this is a big business. You know, we talked about the amount of money that's being paid out. It's not going away. As long as these guys can keep bringing in million dollar. You know, payments, they're not going to stop doing it. It's a great business model for them. So we need to be responsible. We need to be producing, as tech companies, good, secure software. And companies that are buying that software, they need to do their due diligence and be looking at their systems, what they have in place, and making sure that they're going to updated stuff.
Emily:Which kind of brings me to ask, you know, what would Next Rule do? If we found out that one of the programming languages we used to deliver our applications on our platform was found to have some sort of vulnerability to it.
Micah:Nextworld right now uses Java. It is a memory safe language. However, say something came out that there was a vulnerability in Java that could not be fixed. The beauty of our software is what the user, the applications that the end user sees and interacts with every day, that metadata is separated from our code and from our infrastructure. It speaks to our infrastructure, too. So we can change out the language. We can rewrite our whole system in a new, you know, X language, if you will, replace Java. And we would just build everything out, and when we're ready, we have what we call a generator between the two, that kind of is the connector. We would just rewrite that generator and point all of our customers instances to that new generator, which would be the new code. Or new infrastructure, behind the scenes, so we could replace it, and the customer would never know. The apps still look the same, they still behave the same. It's just the underlying pieces are different and it allows us to change out. That's why we designed the code the way we did, our product the way we did.
Emily:Okay, I really like that answer Micah because it's I guess what that tells me is that, you know, if we discover some sort of vulnerability with Java a decade, two decades from now we're not tied to it the same way other software vendors are tied to their programming languages, right?
Micah:That's correct. That's correct. We aren't tied because as I said it's, there's a layer between the two. So at any time we can change stuff out. And that's the beauty of our software. And as a cloud provider, you know, we, this is an important point, important point to make is that we're a cloud service, right? This isn't, we don't have customers buying and installing our software on their servers and being run. And one of the benefits of cloud is that we take on that risk for you, right? We were taking on that burden of making sure that our software is up to date, it's using the right, products that we don't have vulnerabilities. You don't have to patch anything. We do the patching for you. And we do that fixing underneath, like I said, switching out the code, switching out infrastructure. Take care of all of that. If you had it on-prem, that's where these, a lot of these companies are coming into problems right now. If they're on, they have their own servers and they're running, they bought the software, you know, on the C mm-Hmm. like we used to, and they've done the installs. Now they're responsible. They got hardware software that they're all responsible for. And anything goes wrong in there, they got to start replacing. And the problem is, once you start replacing one component, you may just say, Oh, I just need to replace the software. That's the new stuff won't run on that old server. You've got now you're replacing the server, too. All of that adds up to more and more
Speaker 5:money.
Micah:You don't have to deal with that with us. So 10 years down the road, something comes out. We do the fix. You never
Q:So what advice would you give to companies that are looking to prevent security breaches? What's something you could tell them or should they know right now? Yeah, I'd say
Micah:start with fundamentals, right? A lot of this stuff, I think when people think about security, especially business owners, they know it doesn't generate, it Revenue, right? It's a cost center. But a lot of this stuff isn't that expensive to use. There's a lot of things you can do. I would say, look at multi factor authentication. Turning that on for your critical systems, all your systems, right? If I get your password, a user name and password and you have multi factor authentication on, I can't get in, right? It prevents me. So that's just a real simple thing to do. Some other things. Training and awareness of your staff around phishing. There are two primary ways that these attackers get in. And the number one way is through social engineering. So phishing attacks or text messages or just calling you up. Getting people to trust them and give them credentials or other information, right? So train your people on how to identify those types of social engineering attacks. And the other way to get in is through vulnerabilities. gaps in, in software, whether it's, you know, your software that you're using or software that you're developing, but we're talking about those that are using it, knowing, having some kind of system or knowing who your vendors are and making sure that you're applying those security patches when they come out. Again, doesn't cost anything. It takes a little bit of effort, but it's part of your package. You don't have to necessarily upgrade to the new release. As long as the vendor is still providing patches, but you've got to apply those patches. And you've got to make sure that they're antivirus software. You know, we all are used to having that on our laptops, but you'd be surprised there's companies out there that don't really. So very simple, basic stuff. And then you can get into, you know, password comp complexity, you know, making sure you're not using password. Azure password. You know.
Emily:No, password 123. Yes,
Micah:there you go. That makes it all simple.
Q:Remind me I have a to do later.
Micah:Simple stuff like that. You know, basics. And then always be monitoring your vendors. You know, our customers, I talk to our customers all the time. They come to, every year I'm getting, they want to know what our security program is like. And so we do a SOC 2 type 2, which is it. Third party independent third party audit of our security controls. I would recommend if you're going to use a vendor that you see that they're doing some kind of independent audit of their security program, right? Someone else has taken eyes and going, yeah, they have an effective program. We do that. We can provide that information over to our customers so that they know that this is what we are doing and we've had somebody look at it and say, yes, it's working.
Q:So I know in regards to like employees and how they use their systems There's some people out there that when it comes to multi factor authentication They're just kind of annoyed I got to do this every time we get into a software But I think the conversations we've had today if they give it a listen and do the damages it could do for a business Or a company it might shed some light on them like okay I understand the protection that's needed and why this is in place to prevent these things from happening
Micah:You need to have that awareness. That's part of the awareness program and that's something that I'm doing and continue to try to improve on is educating our staff, our employees around what is the threat and why we are doing some of the things that we're
Speaker 5:doing,
Micah:how this protects us. Because we all have a vested interest, right? We don't want our company to get hacked in our customer's data to get out there. That can hurt us. That would damage us greatly as a company, right? We talked about that. The reputational damage even more than the financial damage.
Q:I'm going to do a call back to a classic game we have on this show. And by classic, I mean we've done it once a few episodes ago. Uh, It was on our first episode and I wanted to bring it back to this because I think there's some alarming statistics out there in regards to cybersecurity and breaches and things like that nature. So I want to play a little game of fact or fiction with you. I'm going to mention statements and you just tell me, is it true? Is it not true? And then your reason for thinking why, fact or not, or fiction. The first question. on average, a data breach costs 1. 5 million dollars. Fact or fiction?
Micah:I'm gonna say,
Q:it's
Micah:probably going up.
Q:Final answer, fact?
Micah:Yes.
Q:It is fiction. It is actually almost three times that amount at 3. 9 million dollars on average. Oh, okay. In regards to data breaches. Sneaky. I
Speaker 9:was thinking
Q:higher. Yeah. It's there, it's very much, it's very much there. Yeah.
Micah:And that varies by size of company, type of company, all of that you know, that's one of the things that as a company, you got to take into account is what's your risk level.
Q:Exactly. Okay. All right. The second one for you, Factor Fiction, Micah. Email is the most common vector for malware, with around 35 percent of malware delivered via email in 2023. Fact or fiction?
Micah:That's fact. It is the most. I'm not sure about the 23%, but I know it's, that's the number one.
Q:He's right. It's email. Don't click the link. Yeah. Don't click the link. The phishing emails here. Yeah. They can be sneaky. They can be, but like you said, email is the most common form, so you have to just be aware of the common things that people are doing or looking for to get people to click a link or to respond to something. That's number one. Is, would you say, is email a part of social engineering? Is it a part of that category?
Micah:Yeah, it is. The phishing attack is part of social engineering. Really, all social engineering is it's playing on human emotion and human interest to get them to do something. They otherwise wouldn't do, you know, if you just ask them for your password, they give it to you. Hopefully not. That's why a lot of you see the phishing emails. They always have this sense of urgency Oh, you know, your system's going to be locked out if you don't change your password right now. And they try to, they play on your emotions.
Q:We need something for your paycheck. You're not gonna get paid tomorrow. Those types of
Micah:situations. The CEO. Yep. You know, the fake CEO, she needs the gift cards. How anyone still falls for that one? That has been around so long. Would you,
Q:would you say that the risk of like social media is that rising as well in regards to tax attacks or is it still mainly emails, the focal point for social engineering attacks,
Micah:social media isn't, I don't think has played out on the social engineering aspect. But. And here's the critical point of it. What attackers do is they use your social media for intelligence gathering. Oh, they're watching your social media. What are you posting about what, and they're collecting information and they will then use to social engineer you. They know when you've been on vacation. So they'll go, Oh, or when your vacation's coming up, you know, or, and they'll use that to craft a social engineering tech against you.
Q:post less.
Emily:Kind of like a BDR. Yeah. Yeah.
Q:in a
Emily:way,
Q:in a way, those business development reps do have a way of getting information the proper way, but they're doing it. They're doing their research. They're
Emily:doing it for good. Yes. That's difference.
Q:Difference. Okay. Our last one, you're one for two, that in 500 get you in the Hall of fame in major league baseball, so that's great. Nice fact or fiction. Every 78 seconds there is a cyber attack in the United States.
Micah:True. 78 seconds.
Q:Final answer? What do you think?
Emily:I like that Micah just went with his gut. So I'm gonna listen to Micah's gut. Okay.
Q:It's fiction. It's actually half that time. Oh really? Oh, it's worse. It's every 39 seconds. Wow. Every 39 seconds there's a cyber attack in the United States. That's why happened since we started talking about that question. It's happened.
Speaker 4:Oh
Q:man. All right. I'm going to say your percentage and my percentage are about the same in Fact or Fiction. I got, what was it, 2 of 6? 2 out of 6. 2 of 6, so yeah, it evenly divides 1 of 3, 2 of 6, we're the same. Alright, good. We're the same, 333. Nice. Repeating, of course. let's go ahead and let's conclude the conversation today and as we do it, we always have a tradition here on the show of asking people, What's their next on this ahead of what's next podcast. We want to know what are you up to and what's your what's going on in Micah's world. What's next?
Micah:Besides just a lot of work, probably the next big thing will be Christmas. Yeah. I'll be here before you know it. As a matter of fact, I probably need to get on some shopping. I'm already probably behind, right? Another to do list item for me. Looking forward to, you know, have a son in college. And having that son home for Christmas is always just a great time. So that's probably the next big thing I'm looking forward to.
Q:That's fantastic.
Emily:Also prime time for those malicious attacks to try and getcha.
Micah:Oh yes. Amazon. Yes. Big one. Amazon emails as Christmas shopping starts coming around. Oh, your order is going to be canceled. Yep. You know, we, cause we lost something. You need to provide us your credit card number. Yeah.
Emily:Maybe not the most wonderful time of the year.
Q:Nice. I'll give you a high five for that. Thank you. You deserve it. You deserved it. Emily, what are you doing? What's next for you?
Emily:What is my next? Okay, Micah was looking pretty far forward to Christmas. He was. I'm just trying to wrap my brain around Halloween. And I gotta say I'm super excited to dress up my one and a half year old daughter for Halloween.
Q:Do we have an idea on the theme?
Emily:I don't have an idea yet. I'm best last minute. But I just know whatever she wears is gonna be pretty darn cute.
Q:That's fair.
Emily:That's fair. How about you?
Q:I think I'm going to invent a new word for this. My next I'm excited for my pump pumpkin patching through pumpkin patches. It's something I used to do as a kid, but now like I've got good fond for it. Cause we'll go to a big pumpkin patch where they have like the the tractor poles and the mazes and then the cider that's for the adults, not for the kids, that kind of situation. So pumpkin patching is what I'm excited for in October and football.
Speaker 5:football.
Q:I
Emily:see like your head poking out of a pumpkin when you say that. So
Q:like the top, let's Photoshop that the top that's cut out of a Jack Leonard and I just pop up. Yes. Still on my head. Yeah, we can make that happen. Good. Or the thumbnail for this episode. Nice.
Speaker 8:Now that's clickbait. Nice.
Q:Oh, man. Micah, thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank
Micah:you for having me. This has been wonderful.
Q:It's been a great conversation. Emily, again, thank you, obviously for running the ship here.
Emily:Oh, you got it. Happy to be here.
Q:guys so much for listening, watching, wherever you're at in the world. We appreciate you, and we'll see you in the next one.
Emily:and as always, stay ahead of what's next.
Speaker 10:And that's a wrap on yet another episode of Ahead of What's Next, a Next World podcast. Thank you all for listening with episodes dropping monthly. Be sure to look for us on Amazon Music, YouTube, and Spotify.
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